Re: Feedback for QPE on X11

Greetings all,

somebody wrote:
> > > X can also be a compatibility API. Lots of X apps out there, lots of
> > > people know how to use X base toolkits.

Lot's of fragmentation. Lot's of incompatible programs. Lot's of
duplication of work. Lot's of confusion for even somewhat
experienced users: "now which of these programs is best and still
being developed?"

In mail on Re: Feedback for QPE on X11, Jay Sekora (js@aq.org) wrote:
>
> Benjamin Meyer wrote:
> > Yes, but you would only really want to run those remotly.

> Hard to do that when I'm walking down the sidewalk.

That's what high speed mobile network access is for! Pity it's not
likely to be in the US anytime soon.

> Or am I missing
> your point?

I think he meant because of their size. He missed your point of
wanting to be able to use them anywhere.

> ... And if I had a Motif or Qt or whatever app that did
> what I wanted on the desktop, but I didn't have enough room for Motif or
> Qt or whatever on the iPAQ, well, the fact that there are so many apps
> for X probably means I could find a Tk, Gtk+, or Xt/Xaw-based app that
> did what I needed it to (and I'd probably end up running it both places).

So if you didn't have room for Tk, Gtk+, Xt/Xaw, Motif, or
whatever, and you found a Qtopia app that did what you needed it to
would you end up running it both places?

A big advantage of allowing only one toolkit is that people are
more likely to develop for THAT toolkit.

> I'm all in favour of trying to pare down base distributions, and come
> up with coherent complete single-toolkit application suites, but using
> X means that the user who wants something that's missing from that
> coherent complete single-toolkit application suite, and who has the
> spare flash space, can find and install and use something else.

If the single toolkit is preferred enough, people might just port
that something else to the preferred toolkit, saving space and
adding cohesion across all applications, a good thing.

Also, to play the Bill's advocate, many people complain that
Xwindows doesn't have the apps they want. That's the main reason
for Dosemu, Wine and dual booting Linux boxes after all.

> (Just
> as people - well, me anyway - routinely mix Gnome and KDE apps and
> random other stuff on the desktop.)

But would you really care if all were only one toolkit? Since most
apps are going to be changed to be useful on the PDA anyway
(screen size, input methods), it's a question of how easy the
change is versus how large the result is, I would think.

> That's right - if the apps don't behave the same as they do on my
> desktop I get frustrated. :-)

Now I'm imagining a 1280x1024 virtual screen on the 320x240
view-port. Ugh, the scrolling is making me dizzy. ;)

> Seriously, that depends on what the user wants.

Yep. And Ben is trying to please the average corporate luser.

> ... I want a way to run the same apps I run at home and at work
> when I'm on the subway, and I'm willing to sacrifice a lot of
> PDA/organizer functionality for that. (Essentially, I want what
> Microsoft markets WinCE machines as - a pocket PC, rather than a
> programmable, expandable organizer.)

I too want a palm-top PC, so I don't NEED my desktop for the (mostly
PDA type) things I do on the road. Why have 2 identical
applications with 2 copies of data running the same thing? Just
run it on the PDA. If you want mouse and large keyboard access,
run it remotely via VNC on the desktop.

This is something I don't understand about many PDA users. I think
it is the reason so many worry about sync'ing. I don't care one
bit about sync'ing because I'm going to use my Zaurus for the apps
and data that are on my Zaurus. Groupware sync'ing I understand,
but why is single user sync'ing such a big deal? It seems almost
like it's taboo to use a PDA at home or in the office.

As far as Qtopia inside X goes, if I had tons of space (a
micro-drive) I'd probably install it and Xwindows on my PDA (along
with the rest of Debian). But then I'd just be upset at the many X
programs I couldn't run because my screen was too small. Right now
the only app I REALLY miss (GnuCash) wouldn't work too well on a
small screen anyway. So I'm satisfied with pure Qtopia.

Now, where Qtopia in X would be really important to me is on my
desktop, so in case I ever lost or broke my PDA I could still use
my data in the original programs I know so well.

-Howard
Received on Sun Jun 02 15:45:42 2002