Wookey writes:
[snip]
> Familiar seems to be the free PDA OS with the biggest mindshare at the moment
> so I'm happy to muck in there if that's the best way of getting things done,
> and I'd like to see the familiar work made available on these other
> platforms. So much so that I'll do my damndest to make that happen for the
> Psion5, for example.
Great! Welcome aboard. I'd be glad to see Familiar working on multiple
platforms.
> A lot of people need a neat kernel+ramdisk configuration system (which is
> what CML2+OS from emdebian is, but it never really got quite finished), and
> for systems that change you need packaging and package management, and ipkg
> seems to be that very thing (Carl, you didn't reply to my emdebian-list post
> about this yet...). It seems to me that the various parts to fill people's
> needs are around and just need bringing together to make something pretty
> nifty.
BTW, ipkg also makes a handy "ramdisk configuration system". For
example, you can run it on an i386 host and point it at the collection
of arm .ipks and "ipkg install" the packages of interest to a
subdirectory on the i386 host. This is how all of the Familiar jffs2
images are created.
I hope that Familiar will soon have all of the benefits of CML2+OS,
(ie. device files and kernel modules will only get pulled in as they
are required by user-requested packages). One nice thing is that this
will happen without requiring the user to custom-compile a kernel,
(which is frequently unnecessary for the iPAQ at least as the hardware
configuration is so static).
Oh, and I've now replied to the emdebian-list post...
> Before I shoot my mouth off any more I'd like to know more about the
> infrastructure you guys are using to generate the system.
Alexander Guy deserves a lot of credit for manually assembling the
first versions of Familiar. If I'm not mistaken, he grabbed most
binaries directly from Debian/arm unstable.
I really wanted to see packaging in Familiar, so I took Alexander's
work and split it up into about 70 packages named after their Debian
counterparts. These packages are different from Debian mainly in the
fact that a bunch of cruft has been left out of each one.
> I gather it relies on Debian's. I'd like to see a debian-embedded
> or debian-PDA variant which was sufficiently integrated to get
> distributed on Debian's huge infrastructure. If that would help you
> guys then I'd be pleased to try and help make that happen.
I for one have always been interested in making something like this
happen. In the meantime, we also want a useful system now. So that's
why Familiar is hosting its own collections of packages.
This also means that Familiar is missing useful things that are
currently provided by Debian infrastructure. These include:
o systematic access to package source code
o consistent build environments for all packages
o automated package submission
o availability of all packages for several architectures
There are several different ways to achieve tighter integration with
Debian. These include
o automated/guided stripping of Debian packages
o contributing package changes/splits back to Debian
maintainers
o contributing original programs to Debian
o effecting policy changes in Debian to make it more friendly
to the constraints imposed by handheld computers.
What we have been trying to do with Familiar is to make the most
useful system possible. While we're at it, we've been trying to
maintain Debian compatibility whenever that makes sense. This should
make Debian integration efforts easier.
For now, the thing that probably makes the most sense is for Familiar
to keep doing its thing, but we should feed changes up to Debian,
(through individual maintainers), as much as possible. Only down the
road, when Familiar is more substantial should we think about trying
to change Debian policy for example.
Well, there are my two bits on the matter...
-Carl
PS. Jim Conner, who maintains the Intimate distribution, is dealing
more directly with the compatibility of Familiar packages with
Debian. If I'm not mistaken, he is currently running Debian/Arm
unstable supplemented with a collection of .debs generated from the
Familiar ipkgs. He might have something worth adding to this
discussion.
Received on Mon Jun 11 06:34:09 2001
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